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October 15, 2019, 04:53:54 am


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Author Topic: High Speed ATC Spindles  (Read 3869 times)
Garyhlucas
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« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2019, 23:51:45 pm »

Thanks for the replies guys.  I am going to have to test this some more.  I have limit switches that I can home to but never really bothered because I only implemented them to prevent a crash. My machine rapids at 300ipm which could seriously damage things if I hit an end stop.  The limits are magnetic reed switches so not terribly accurate for position but fine for hand tool changes.  However if home the machine that would allow me to move the spindle to a convenient place all the time for the tool change.  So I'll have to test that too. 
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dh42
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« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2019, 00:07:37 am »

hello

Quote
However if home the machine that would allow me to move the spindle to a convenient place all the time for the tool change.  So I'll have to test that too.

I don't have an ATC but I also use Homing switches and machine coord (G53) to move my spindle in a more comfortable position for manual tool change.

Quote
For reference typically one uses the unloaded spindle nose (if practical) as tool zero with a length of zero.  All other tools are a positive length.  I said if practical as the locking collar on my Kwik 200 spindle on my Hurco mill might not be uniform enough for that.  Instead I use a tool holder with a very short stick out indexing pin in it as tool zero. 

Ok, it's what I thought ; we need a "probe tool" to set the initial 0 if working with tool length ... and that means that one of the tool slot is lost for a cutting tool  Undecided ... except if it is possible to change this probe tool manually ? so it is not needed that it stand on the tools stand/carousel.

++
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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2019, 02:47:49 am »

Usually the unloaded spindle nose is used as tools zero.
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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2019, 23:56:46 pm »


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Dyf6EZBLI

Its a long video, and everything is pretty much summed up in the photos near the end at about 32:19
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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2019, 17:31:21 pm »


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Dyf6EZBLI

Its a long video, and everything is pretty much summed up in the photos near the end at about 32:19


Does anybody get any benefit from these videos?  Even crude vids like this slow down the work, and then they take a lot of time to edit together.  On top of it videos like this do nothing to promote my business, so Its not like I can justify the extra time on both ends for some nebulous brand recognition down the road either. 
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lloydsp
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« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2019, 17:45:06 pm »

Bob,
I very much appreciate the efforts you put into those.

I use them sometimes, and sometimes I don't.  But I always learn something new.

Your sharing your experiences has added a lot to this forum.  I hope you won't stop!

Lloyd
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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2019, 23:48:06 pm »

I got basic installation complete on one of theses ATC spindles last night, and just went through and fixed all the air leaks this afternoon.  Its going through the break-in and warm up cycle right now. 

Step 1 - 30 minutes at 25% of max rpm.  25 minutes in at 6000rpm and the spindle isn't even warm yet. I have a tool holder with a tool in the spindle, and I can't even feel a hint of vibration with my hand against the spindle.  I can hear it, but I can't feel any vibration.  That's as it should be. 

For those who might have been waiting on video #4 of the series, I do still intend to complete that.  I shot some video while installation this spindle, and the air system that goes with it, but I didn't take the time to setup for the best shots and I have not done any video editing.  I needed this machine up and running again more than I needed to make the video.  I have ordered another one of these spindles for the other similar machine and I will try to take the time to shoot better video when I install that spindle. 

Another few minutes and I can start step two of the break-in cycle.  15 minutes at 50% of max RPM. 

~~~~  ok 12,000 RPM.  Still zero hint of vibration.  Spindle still running cool.  Of course I have the spindle coolant hooked up.  I did hear it wind up when I cranked it up to 12000, but that's the only sign its running. 
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« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2019, 23:50:56 pm »

I need to setup a vertical drag chain for all the new air lines.  They won't fit thru the existing flex conduits going to the head. I guess I could run another flex conduit for them 
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« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2019, 00:03:01 am »

I posted a very short video clip of testing the quick change function and air system here on this FB group - Makers & Builders.  

https://www.facebook.com/robert.lalonde.581/videos/2718209201537114/

The air blast you hear is the "deduster"  as it blasts air through the spindle while the draw bar is extended to blow out any chips and blow off the tool holder being inserted.  The actual tool change function is almost silent except for a very faint clunk and short hiss as the piston changes position and a small amount of air is vented through the exhaust ports on the valve.  I do have sintered metal mufflers on the exhaust ports.  

~~~~  My 15 minutes at 50% speed are up.  Time to crank it up to 24K finally.  

~~~~ At 24K I can feel a tiny amount of vibration in the spindle body finally.  
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 00:29:08 am by Bob La Londe » Logged

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« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2019, 00:10:25 am »

I certainly appreciate the noise issue!  After having gotten new hearing aids, I'm even more aware of it.

In about three working days, I'll be receiving the barn metal to finish housing my 'vacuum shed'.  After that, ALL the high-noise items will be mounted a wall-away, and ten feet away from that wall, in another structure.

Noise am my enema... um enemy!

Lloyd
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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2019, 00:27:24 am »

Probably the only thing in my shop with noise safety issues is when I vent my air system at the end of the day to make sure the air dryer drains thoroughly. I turn off the shut off valve at the tank,  Crack the separator before the drier, and open a drain valve after the drier to bleed the distro lines.  Then I crack the bleeder valve on the bottom of the tank to blow out water in the tank.  That is the loudest it gets in my shop.  My compressor is actually not that loud when running, and the loudest spindles is the one on the Hurco.  I can hear a motor whine when its running, but metal cutting noise is louder. 

I've actually still got pretty good hearing.  Often I hear things or notice things nobody else around me hears.  Had a little scare with an ear infection a couple months ago.  Thought I was loosing hearing in my left ear all at once. 

Air blasts are freaking loud.  Actually I am looking at adding air blast on the Hurco semi permanently for steel cutting.  Might have to get my ear muffs out of the wood shop on the house if I do that. 

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« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2019, 00:31:26 am »

Ok, the spindle has been running through break-in and warm up for over an hour.  Its warm, but I can wrap my hand around it with no discomfort.  Its cooler than a moderately worked servo motor that's been running for a couple hours.  Seems good.  I think I'm going to make some parts with it tomorrow. 
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« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2019, 01:01:27 am »

I'm finally running the first job with the new spindle.  I'm pretty darned chuffed. 

Pleased.  Happy.  Satisfied. 

I'm on the 4th tool of the job, and I really like it.  I haven't even started measuring the tool lengths and using the tool table yet, and its still so much more pleasing to use.  Pull the knob and the tool falls out in my hand.  Push the knob back in and it locks the tool in place.  Just that easy.  I had actually put the 4th (5th if you count the edge finder) tool in the machine before I picked up the collet closer wrenches off the front and grinned as I told myself, "I won't these here anymore." 

Now there is one odd thing.  It sounds better.  Quieter in the same cuts.  I don't mean just between the sound of a new spindle and an old worn out one.  I've swapped out a few spindles over the years.  I mean it sounds better the any plane collet nose spindle I have.  New or old. 

I am very happy that I already ordered another one of these spindles for the sister machine. 

I only have two complaints.  So far.

1.  I've had this spindle sitting here for several months and only just now got around to installing it.

2.  For some weird reason the wrench size to snug up the pull stud on the ISO 20 tool holders is neither a standard metric or standard imperial size.  I am using a Crescent ((tm) real Crescent brand even) to snug them down.  Maybe I've just been in two much of a hurry to go down the line and find the right wrench.  Doesn't matter.  They only ever need to be snugged down once. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 01:11:46 am by Bob La Londe » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2019, 01:33:39 am »

Congratulations, Bob!  I still have a manual-change tool collet arrangement, and I discovered that the 'tool height gauge' on the machine varied +-0.050" per 'seek'.  So now, I must zero all tools to the work, instead of the gauge.  (FWIW, it's made a LOT of difference in the quality of the work...)

I envy you that easy change-out, and wish I could just 'program' my tools, and be done with it! But, no extra money means no extra hardware!

Lloyd
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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2019, 01:53:46 am »

I really like the little 2 inch high $60 tool height setters from Shars.  I've ruined a few of them crashing into them in a hurry on a machine thats cludgy with a few million lines of code in memory, but until you do that they are pretty repeatable.  None of them seem to zero at 2 inches (nominal height) with zero straight up.  Doesn't matter to me.  I just turn the dial face and then touch the stock with the spindle turning to get them dialed in just right.

https://www.shars.com/precision-magnetic-z-axis-setter-2-height-x-0-001

I have a 4" one from Edge Technologies, but I can only use it on the bigger mills.  I keep it on the Tormach most of the time.  

https://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/pro-touch-off-gage/

I'd like one that is only 1" high, but haven't found one I liked yet.  I'd get an expensive Mitutoyo, but I don't care how accurate it is over its range.  I just care that I can zero to the same height consistently.  I adjust each one on the machine I use it on and leave it there until something happens to it.  

On the little CNC router I often don't have two inches of clearance so I use the ** reverse gage block (usually a 123 block) method.  Backlash is in the wrong direction that way, but I am doing rougher work in wood on it most of the time anyway.  

** Lay a gage block (123 block) on the work next to the tool.  Lower the tool until it is slightly below the level of the gage block.  Gently push the gage block against the tool while gently holding it down against the work.  Slowly raise the tool until the gage block just slides under it.  Some care is needed.  If you are ham handed you WILL chip a tool.  
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 02:05:33 am by Bob La Londe » Logged

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