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March 20, 2019, 00:45:30 am


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Author Topic: High Speed ATC Spindles  (Read 825 times)
Bob La Londe
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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2019, 19:44:40 pm »

I was amazed at how much more efficient quick changes made me for some jobs.  The Hurco KMB1 is sort of quick change, but I never figured out how to make tool offsets work automatically for it until recently.  When I started using the Tormach with TTS I struggled at first, but its nutso fast now.  It has inspired me to reduce the time spent doing tool changes on other machines.  I group (where possible) short tool runs together at the beginning or end of jobs, and with quick tool changes it can save me ten minutes of just standing there in a single job.  I also no longer fear to many tool changes and use compromise tools instead of changing the tool.  I even use the same tool twice sometimes if its the fastest and most efficient to otherwise cut a job.  I think I subconsciously knew how much time I was wasting, but until I actually started saving that time on one machine it never really hit me before.   

Next I need to make a fixture for measuring the height of iso20 held tools. 

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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2019, 20:17:34 pm »

The router I'm using has 'auto tool zeroing', via a tool-height detector.  It's pretty accurate, too, but not ideal, because it's designed to work only with router bits. I'm still working on some ideas on how to make it work with both router bits and Forstners (which have that damnable pilot 'tit').

There seems to be no way in it's software to change the XY position for length detection based upon cutter selection, so I've got to make some interchangeable faces for the detector -- one with a center hole that will clear the Forstners, and another with no hole for small flat-end cutters.  No time, though!  I spend all my time cutting wares!


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dh42
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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 21:21:40 pm »

Hello

Quote
There seems to be no way in it's software to change the XY position for length detection based upon cutter selection, so I've got to make some interchangeable faces for the detector -- one with a center hole that will clear the Forstners, and another with no hole for small flat-end cutters.  No time, though!  I spend all my time cutting wares!

Yep ! .. same problem with T slot, big facing tool/flycutter or disk tools ... and even if you can offset the tool from the probe, you can't be sure that a tooth (flute) is at the right position above the probe ...

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« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 21:23:38 pm by dh42 » Logged
Bob La Londe
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2019, 15:31:04 pm »

Premeasured tool heights with repeatable tool mounting cures that problem.  You touch off one time at the beginning of the job with any tool and press start.  

As long as the tool in the spindle is the one the machine thinks is in the spindle.  I measure my tools off the machine with a height gage. 


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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2019, 15:45:23 pm »

Alrighty now. 

ITS HEAVY.  Quite a bit heavier than the spindle it will be replacing.  I'll weigh it later if I think of it. 

I've done a little research and know a bit more about the operation.  The signal wires are an activation circuit for an external device, like to engage a carousel position actuator.  I'm not sure I would use them that way, but I don't plan to use a tool rack or carousel any time soon with this.  I just want fast accurate tool changes using tool heights stored in the tool table. 

It uses air to release and disengage he tool holder.  I'll do a conversion on the spec in documentation I have, but one other user said he ran 80PSI.  There is a second air inlet marked return.  At first I thought it was just an air vent, but it appears to be a to quickly reengage the tool retention claw and disengage a spindle lock.  I'm still not clear how air is vented after a tool change.  I might need to use a 3 way valve. 

Their is an air seal.  I'm familiar with that.  Several of my other spindles have a spindle nose air seal.  I just use a cheap filter regulator on those set at 15PSI.  A solenoid valve opens when I power up the machine.  For those that don't know an air seal creates a slight positive pressure in the spindle nose to keep coolant and chips from getting in around any seals, bearings, or labyrinth.   Most have some clearance and there is a constant hiss of air flowing out. 

It has a thermister output which I'll probably just connect to a sounder or a flasher.  Even if it does get hot I want to stop it, not have it estop and crash. 

Of course its liquid cooled.  I already have liquid cooled spindles on all machines I currently plan to use one of these on so that is no big deal. 

Unlike my other spindles this does not have a plug for the 3 phase power.  It has a cord exiting the top of the motor.  That's fine with me.  Plugs from one motor to another can be different.  I can just install a barrier strip or use grease filled wire nuts.  I have been doing something like that on replacement spindles anyway.  I just leave the plug with a short length of cord on a motor when I pull it.  I currenty use silicone grease filled wire nuts. 

That's about it. 

I may not get back to this today.  I've got a couple molds that I tested yesterday and want to get ready to ship.  Mostly deburring and some secondary operations.  I also want to work on one of my boats and maybe do a little fishing today or tomorrow. 

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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2019, 21:34:20 pm »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_7TKhVqLCI&feature=youtu.be
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« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2019, 21:57:06 pm »

Fascinating, Bob!  I have no idea (yet) whether or not I could be OK with a smaller HP spindle than what I have, but  obviously saving time changing tools would be advantageous -- and even more-so to not have to re-zero each tool.

Keep us informed. 

Thanks,
Lloyd
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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2019, 22:14:54 pm »

I wonder if that one air port might just be a case vent.  For any air that goes where it isn't supposed to. 
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2019, 23:56:26 pm »

I wonder if that one air port might just be a case vent.
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Not knowing anything about this particular spindle I think you may be right. Most if not all spindles have vents .. Nice looking setup.
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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2019, 00:10:25 am »

Perhaps, if it IS a vent, it's just to allow one to pipe any possible chips and metal dust (originating IN the spindle?) away from the spindle area and work area.

Just a thought.

Lloyd
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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2019, 01:45:46 am »

The Manual

* RTM80-20-24Z 1.8 220V ATC.pdf (520.07 KB - downloaded 1 times.)
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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2019, 02:06:39 am »

Hello

I found the spindle on E-Bay, and the price is very nice compared to the one sold by Sorotec !  Shocked

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/1-8KW-Automatic-Tool-Change-220V-ATC-Water-cooled-spindle-motor-ISO20-Engraving/264202169458?hash=item3d83ad2c72:g:U2wAAOSwjRpZUzbD

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David
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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2019, 02:15:43 am »

Very light the manual !   you have to be diviner ! Grin

A good thing the "tool change signal" feedback to avoid crash if no air (or insufficient pressure)

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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2019, 02:46:58 am »

Ok... I think I got it.  There is a spring setup most likely on the draw bar, with a separate air cylinder that compresses the springs.  The air cylinder is probably dual acting.  Either with or without an internal return spring.  The other air port probably goes to the return side of the air cylinder to "make sure" it doesn't get stuck and sit there riding on the top of the draw bar generating heat through friction at 24000 rpm.  

After looking at the manual... I had to look up some of the pneumatic circuit symbols.  It looks like it uses a valve that puts pressure on one side when deenergized and vents the other.  Then when energized it puts pressure on the side that was previously vented and vents the first.  

So... The guy in that other video was probably right... sort of.  But he still needed to release the air between his valve and his spindle.  

Now Interestingly I think I have just such a valve that I took off a piece of equipment.  From reading it seems like it needs what is called a 2 way 5 port valve, but it sure sounds like it operates like a 3 way valve to me.  

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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2019, 03:06:42 am »

Like this:


* Spindle Tool Change.JPG (2259.15 KB, 4160x2340 - viewed 6 times.)
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