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Author Topic: Adding Reverse drum switch to my lathe.  (Read 869 times)
Bubba
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« on: May 17, 2018, 19:31:16 pm »

Hopefully someone will point me in the right direction. A have old (older than me  Grin) Atlas clausing metal lathe and I really missed to be able reverse the chuck direction specially when chasing (inside-out threading) thread or when hole tapping. The lathe motor, I think is  one of harbour freight brands with start capacitor, not sure about the Hp of it . The label is badly damaged and was able to determine that its rotation can be reversed by swapping two wires, in fact by doing so the motor changes its rotation without a problem. I had it wired for 220v and it run fine for couple of years this way, but now its time to add the reversible switch. The switch is Chinese KEDU ZH-HC-3 that I have removed from tabletop mill during conversion. Now, I don't have a connection schematic for it so using my VOM I was able to determine its internal workings and based on this I connected it to the motor (no noise and smoke present Wink.. It does not make any difference in what position the drum switch is, the motor spins in one direction only.. If somebody is willing to take look at this and help me solve this, I appreciate very much. I suspect the motor wiring is not right Sad Attached are two pictures shown my current configuration.. Thanks.


* Drum switch.JPG (32.67 KB, 495x512 - viewed 31 times.)

* Motor Connections.JPG (20.03 KB, 417x362 - viewed 29 times.)

* Motor label.jpg (1311.57 KB, 2656x1494 - viewed 27 times.)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 21:29:31 pm by Bubba » Logged

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Dragonfly
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 20:02:11 pm »

I don't see the capacitor on the schematic. And it plays a vital role for reversing the motor.  Are there only two wires to the motor?
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Bubba
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 21:30:47 pm »

Thanks for reply. Yes, there's a capacitor even thou I haven't included in the drawing because I did not see wires where they go without taking the motor apart. Now, having said that, just comeback from shop where I removed the back side of the motor where those wires live just to see the back of the board connections. The capacitor wires are soldered in to winding. It looks like back side of the 1 and 4 posts have wires soldered to them, post 1-blue wire, post 4-yellow. The back of the posts 2-3 don't have anything connected to them, they serve as wire junction attachments. It look like this motor have some kind of centrifugal clutch/brake, it does have red wires going in. On of those red wires is part of the to of the board connections show in previous drawing.

"Are there only two wires to the motor?" Are you referring to power cable, if so there are 3 wires (ground wire is not shown in switch drawing for clearity) Green-Ground, White-L1, Black - L2.. Will try to attach motor label to my previous post.

Attached are motor connections. Thanks,
   


* Motor top board.jpg (1076.39 KB, 1494x2656 - viewed 24 times.)

* Motor back board.jpg (1463.98 KB, 1494x2656 - viewed 22 times.)
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EddyCurrent
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 22:34:36 pm »

It looks like the red and black wires ONLY should be reversed.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 22:47:37 pm by EddyCurrent » Logged
Bubba
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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 22:53:09 pm »

Well yes, that what I did, and it does that changes the cv/ccv rotation, but I want to be able reverse rotation thru drum switch as mentioned in first post and sofar, no joy.. Wink
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 00:01:30 am by Bubba » Logged

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lloydsp
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2018, 01:08:34 am »

Well, Bubba!  If only the red and black need to be reversed, wire the switch so it does so!

Huh

(personally, I don't believe that... unless those two wires just happen to be to two separate field coils, and not the 'rotor winding')

Lloyd
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Bubba
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 02:27:29 am »

If only the red and black need to be reversed, wire the switch so it does so!
************************
I did, and does not work for some reason. Tomorrow my plan is to remove the capacitor and verify that is good (the motor start fine under load), also will run those two wires red & black in to the switch itself and go from there.
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Dragonfly
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 08:35:31 am »

If the motor starts OK don't fiddle with the capacitor. If the motor reverses when you manually swap the wires then something in the switch wiring is not right.
It now came to me that your 220V is actually two 110V phases and not single phase Live and Neutral like in Europe.
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EddyCurrent
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2018, 08:49:35 am »

I'm reading on the label that it says, to reverse interchange red and black.
However with the switch shown there are other considerations.
For example, you don't want voltage across one motor winding while the switch is in the OFF position so the switch must be wiired to;
1. Isolate all windings of the motor in the OFF position
2. apply voltage to the motor as normal in both FWD and REV positions
3. reverse the red and black wires when moving from FWD to REV
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Bubba
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2018, 12:17:05 pm »

I'm reading on the label that it says, to reverse interchange red and black.
However with the switch shown there are other considerations.
For example, you don't want voltage across one motor winding while the switch is in the OFF position so the switch must be wiired to;
1. Isolate all windings of the motor in the OFF position

1a. Eddy, the switch in the center/off position insolate everything, checked with meter. 

2. apply voltage to the motor as normal in both FWD and REV positions

2a. I thought that's exactly what is happening thru the drum reversal switch.

3. reverse the red and black wires when moving from FWD to REV

3a. That's what what I thinking, I guess I need to add 2 more wires and figure out how all is going to connected in the drum switch.    

Fly, Yes, I will leave the cap alone.

I should point out, my drawing is not showing this but there is a main on/off switch that disconnect all power to the lathe motor.



 Thanks for suggestions. 
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lloydsp
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2018, 12:30:07 pm »

Well, Bubba, if it already has a separate power switch, then all you need is to hook the drum switch up like any 'normal' DPDT switch, in order to reverse the red/black leads!

Here's one way:

You first 'X-connect' the two OUTSIDE contact pairs to one-another.  Yes... actually connect a wire from (say) the upper-right contact to the lower-left, and another wire from upper-left to lower right.

You connect the 'source' red/black to the Left OUTSIDE pair.

You connect the 'destination' red/black to the two center contacts.

It's about as simple a setup as one could imagine.

LLoyd
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Bubba
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2018, 16:58:54 pm »

Yeah Lloyd, agree if you know what you doing and use simple DPDT switch. Electricity never was my strong suit so that why I'm asking simple for you questions..
I have created CB drawing for those who are willing to connect the 'dots' for me, because I don't follow written words very good. Any help and suggestions are welcomed. Thanks.   

* Drum Switch.cb (20.06 KB - downloaded 10 times.)
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lloydsp
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2018, 18:29:33 pm »

A pictorial of the switch doesn't do as much good as a schematic of it.  The manufacturer should have one.  Sometimes it's even printed on a label on the switch.

There are all sorts of 'drum switches', and each manufacturer's terminal designation is different.

That one - from the pictorial - looks like it was designed to reverse three-phase motors.

Lloyd
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dh42
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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2018, 18:43:02 pm »

Hello

http://www.kedu.cn/Catalogue/cam/On-lineCatalogue.html?page=66

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Bubba
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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2018, 19:02:38 pm »

Thanks for looking at it. Attached is schematic for this switch. It look like 'fast David'  Grin beat me this, I figured it is easier to see it here and not waste the time to look for it in the catalog.

Thank you guys.

Earlier reply by Fly got me thinking about the split phase 220 V we have here vs one I'm fairly familiar with in Europe. Long story short, this one is 3 pole switch, and as Lloyd point out is suitable for control l 3 phase motors. For my project I need a 4 pole drum switch to be able to break both hots and to switch the Red and Black wires at the same time. So for now till I get new switch this project shelved. Thanks for helping fellas!


* KEDU ZH-HC-3 Schematic.JPG (28.46 KB, 518x310 - viewed 24 times.)
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