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December 13, 2017, 14:34:14 pm


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Author Topic: Disloyalty and HSM  (Read 7149 times)
Bob La Londe
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2016, 01:05:51 am »

Its $100K net profit or less to qualify as a startup and free license.  

Finally installed it on my laptop and one of my desktops.  I spent more than half the day yesterday just watching tutorial videos.  I'm still not ready to use it to make parts.  

I need to make some parts, so I am using ViaCad and CamBam today.  

It says;
"At the end of 1 year, you can reselect the startup entitlement or transition to a commercial entitlement."

So maybe it's only available as a 2 year option for free ? do you really want to invest that much time and effort into learning it for just 2 years use ?

CamBam doesn't have some of the tools I really need to improve my productivity.  HSM strategies, uniform engagement, 3D REST machining, etc.  It would also be nice if it used memory page swapping to avoid out of memory errors on large jobs, etc.  I've learned to back door into a lot of it to get the job done.  Its a great basic tool.  No matter what I use to get the things I need I'll probably still use CamBam for quick and dirty and small jobs.  Or just for jobs I haven't learned to do with whatever else I am using. 

I don't know if Fusion360 will be the answer, but the fact that I can have all the time I'll ever need to learn that at no cost helps a lot.  It took me a long time to learn CamBam to the level I have today where I can do most things I need to with it.  I have years invested in learning CamBam and ViaCAD, I don't think it will take as many years to learn to make parts with another system.  I know its going to be slow to start while I get into the mind flow of the designers, learn their interface, and how different operations work.  Once I get the basics I am sure it will take me some time to learn how to be efficient. 

CamBam does have a lot of neat tools, and the plugins written by so many have expanded its usability quite a bit, but some long time users have resisted and argued against things I've tried to suggest for making more faster more efficient tool paths, and improving material removal rates.  I haven't heard that any of the things I need are in the short term plans.  I'm invested in this now.  I've put deposits down on three more machines that should be arriving next month and I need to get the most out of them. 

If Fusion360 does help me make enough money off of machining that I no longer qualify for free status and its working well I'll pay for it.  I can always keep cranking out parts with CamBam while I am finding out. 

One that got my attention the other day when I was watching and reading tutorials is that the very next lesson listed is an hour long video on creating organic 3D solids using splines and polylines.  Something that is impossible in CamBam, and not particularly easy in ViaCad.  Its feels like sometimes I've used every tool on the pallet to not quite get what I wanted a few times with ViaCad.  I didn't watch that one yet because I wanted to be fresh and sharp so I can soak it all in the first time I watch it. 

At the very least the skills I learned with CamBam and ViaCad should help me learn Fusion360 a little faster.  If its not the final answer then the skills I learn from it should help me learn the next thing a little faster. 



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Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

Some Stuff I Make with CamBam
http://www.CNCMOLDS.com
Bob La Londe
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2016, 17:52:10 pm »

I've been busy, so haven't made much progress with Fusion360.  It does have a method of 3D modeling that is pretty cool once I get the knack for it.  You just create a 3D rectangular solid with lots of sections and division lines.  Then you push and pull on it until you have the shape you want.  I'm not kidding.  Its almost that easy... well except for that knack I mentioned.  It will take some of us more practice than others. 
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Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

Some Stuff I Make with CamBam
http://www.CNCMOLDS.com
billt
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« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2016, 02:43:30 am »

Give Estlcam a look.  It is only $59 (free trial), has a simple interface with lots of good features.  Has fully functioning 2D and 3D CAM including dxf, svg, jpg, nc, and stl files, a built-in path previewer, and even a built-in arduino machine controller.  It has "trochoidal" machining paths, which is probably not considered full HSM, but he demonstrates using it to cut aluminum and stone.  It has fast V-carve path generation, and creates paths for depth increment if necessary.  It does not have CAD functionality, so you will still need to feed it a design from Inkscape, SolidWorks, etc...  Although you can create manual path points using snap-to-grid for really simple cut paths or drill patterns.  So far I am pretty impressed with it, and development is ongoing.
Cheers - BillT
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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2017, 18:02:33 pm »

Well, I cut my first code generated with Fusion 360 yesterday.  It was a waterline (contour) finish type operation.  I spent days trying to get it with CamBam and it just wouldn't work.  I could do a scanline type plunge operation to do it, but because it was a deep narrow oval slot that just wasn't very efficient.  I got a code file that would take about 8 hours to cut, but I knew it would break cutters... and it did.  Its ok, it would have been a lousy finish anyway.  My test cut yesterday with the Fusion code was pretty aggressive, but it made the full depth in 53 minutes.  The cutter was screaming, but it didn't break.  The finish quality was eh! but it was better than the scanline code from CB.  Waterline wouldn't generate at all in CB.  If I left he computer alone for 9 hrs it would generate code, but I could see at a glance it wouldn't cut the slot properly.  

That being said CamBam is still an order of magnitude easier to learn and use than Fusion, and some things (maybe I just haven't learned them yet) were nearly impossible to get the control I wanted and am used to from CamBam.  

Does Fusion generate code CamBam stumbles on?  Yes.  
Does Fusion have rest and hsm built in?  Yes.
Is it easier to use?  Yes and No.
Does it give you the level of granular control CamBam does?  Yes and No.    
Is it easier to learn?  NO ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Its very 3D oriented.  I can see why people who use this type of CAM tend to think everything should be a 3D model.  A 3D model is easier to work with in Fusion, but it does seem to have some limitations.  

I found the 3D CAD to be more difficult.  I still haven't been able to model anything in it that I actually cut.  The code I cut yesterday was done using an .stp file exported from ViaCad.  

I can see me transitioning over to Fusion for some things as I learn to use it, but a basic job will always be easier with a 2D job in CamBam.  I can see a lot of my organic shape CAM being done in Fusion.  I'll probably continue to use ViaCad for 3D CAD for a long time.  I'm just to used to that massive library of tools and tool bars in ViaCad.  

My design strategy will have to be much different for Fusion.  It doesn't seem to like the two stage process I have developed for CamBam where I design a mold cavity in CAD, and then do everything else with 2D in CamBam, and then just mirror all the operations (sometimes) for its matching plate.  

There is a lot to learn.  

I have kept waiting for a long time.  I want to see CamBam have better 3D, better tool path generation, REST, and better HSM Strategies.  If it develops them I'll use them.  I would like to see it generate code that is possible where sometimes currently it does not.  I'd like to see code generated faster.  I don't know where the hard math is done for Fusion, but code that took 9 hrs to generate on CamBam took less than a few minutes on Fusion.  I suspect the heavy lifting is done on the Fusion Cloud server, and not on the local PC, so that may not be possible, but its something to consider.  

P.S.  F BobCAD.  Its not even in the same class.  I ran it in demo mode for a while and it was horrible.  Worse, all the stuff I wanted from it cost extra, and I had to send them a cease and desist to get them to stop hassling me. 


« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 18:04:10 pm by Bob La Londe » Logged

Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

Some Stuff I Make with CamBam
http://www.CNCMOLDS.com
Garyhlucas
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2017, 22:12:40 pm »

Bob,
I found Fusion 360 to be easy to understand the modeling part, but I have used SolidWorks for 4 years, Solid Edge for 8 years, Rhino for 15 years, and that helps a lot.  CamBam makes for really quick programming for 95% of what we do. Haven't tried Fusion Cam yet. Like machining every tool does something you need.

The BobCad guys have apparently kept up their reputation I see!
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Gary H. Lucas

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Bob La Londe
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« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2017, 22:19:42 pm »

Oh, HELL NO!  

LOL.  

I just tried to redo a whole job in Fusion360 and found it to be a huge exercise in frustration.  After fighting with it for 4 hours I just created a .tap file in Fusion for the "organic" 3D bit it did well and imported it into CamBam where I did all the rest of the job much faster and easier.  The issue with that is tool changes.  I will always need to double check that I don't have a tool conflict, and edit the code manually to prevent it.  

I think I could do "most" of the job in Fusion, but I'd have to create the entire mold as a 3D entity to work from rather than using 3D for just the mold cavity, and doing all the grunt work with 2D entities like I do now.  

I found the CAD part of Fusion to be very difficult to manage.  I can do some stuff, but ViaCad is so much easier.  

I did notice that the Fusion post for Mach inserts a G28 to take the machine to the tool change position, where I have a G28 in my tool change macro so I didn't have to modify the post in CamBam.  It could get confusing.  It also inserts one at the end of the job.  I do that in my 1030 macros so there is clearance to remove the part without having to jog the machine.  I bet they wrote that post for Tormach specifically.  I recall an old Tormach video that required the post to insert that instead of writing it into their macro.  

~~~ time lapse ~~~

I figured out how to turn that stupid extra G28 off.  It actually caused a limit crash because it wasn't just a generic G28. 

Ok...
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 23:38:32 pm by Bob La Londe » Logged

Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

Some Stuff I Make with CamBam
http://www.CNCMOLDS.com
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